....LMB: "The Big Vote"....

keep up the good work, also after election day...

thnx from europe

"If any of you are regular readers and still haven't ruled out voting for Bush, and my hundreds of articles about the way that Bush is turning the globe into a smoking ball of idiocy, blood and hate haven't swayed you, then I am an utter failure as a BLOGGER."

Fixed.

I've chewed my fingernails down, the first digit on my fingers sre gone, and I'm starting on the second.

I don't think I'll be happy until we throw the whole electoral college system out the window and make a constitutional amendment for direct elections, which also unifies the method for collecting the vote and also allows outside observers into the process.

Hey, a guy can dream.

Fuck yeah, that pig faced bastard would never have touched the white house if we tossed the EC system, say, with Bush in the lead, my native Switzerland looks REALLY good right now...

http://badnarik.org/interview_9news.php

There ARE alternatives, but people have to wake up and stop being lead around by the nose like cattle.

as a former door door for Green Peace, I know just what you mean, but it's like herding cats. I'm polishing up on my German, and packing my suitcase with Lederhosen.

!Ich fahre nach der Schweiz, George zu entkommen, viel Glück mit Ihrem Leben in diesem verlorenen Land. Ich werde die Vereint nation überholen und werde zurückkommen, Sie zu befreien. Ich habe meine Säcke mit viel Lederhose eingepackt und Habe Schokolade Gemelkt. Treten Sie den Esel von George für mich, meine guten Freunde. Abschied! Und Herrlichkeit nach der Schweiz!

Er...Bush won the popular vote and the only chance Kerry had was through the EC. There are problems with direct democracy as well, especially if you have (of those who bothered to vote) a majority of racist patriots deciding things.

Yeah, what I meant (at the time), was that if we had ditched the EC by the 2000 elections, Bush would have lost by 0.5%. I think now he has won the popular vote because (among other things) of that 'don't change horses in the middle of a stream' thing, which is totally bogus, given that doing so has often ended the war in question. As for the Rascist Patriot thing, I define a patriot as someone who adheres to the American creedo of 'To dissent, and to let dissent', the Right wingers who call us unpatriotic for questioning Bush and his war are not patriots in my book.

To dissent is patriotic, huh? Funny, given how conformist patriotism is since it means rallying behind your country. The logic of patriotism or any form of nationalism is to put your nation's interests above all else, so I don't know where you're getting this crap from about dissenting being "patriotic." And the American credo you refer to is only applicable to white property owners. At least that's the way it has always been.

I have a quote for you - "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

To the person who posted the Badnarik link, I suppose an alternative would be to support a right-wing libertarian *cough cough*. Then again, you might fool some here into thinking that their support for drug legalization trumps their fanatical desire to dismantle liberal programs.

yes, thats what I'm saying, when George's war comes under attack, he waves a flag, by doing that, he supports all that America is, by dissenting, I'm supporting all that America can be. He is practicing conformist patriotism, while I try to practice dissentual patriotism.

The reason I posted that link was to indicate that their all alternatives to just voting for the lesser of two evils. It could have easily been the Green Party, or some other third party.

Possibly looking at the Libertarian site would give someone some inspiration, like the idea that it IS possible to form a third party in this country, and at least put an opposing viewpoint out there in the public.

You see, a give-and-take on ideas about how to run this country is what made it great in the first place. If you take away all discourse, and the lines between the two parties become as blurred as they are now, you no longer have any choices.

So, go ahead and actually look at the Libertarian Party site, browse through the issues on the Badnarik site, check out the Greenpeace website. You know, READ STUFF. I don't agree with all of it, but at least I read it, at least I am well-informed.

The more well-informed you are, the better choices you are going to be able to make about where your country is going. If you just try to shut everyone else up because they don't share your same views, you are part of the problem. You are actually shooting yourself in the foot.

Perhaps if you saw one platform issue on the Libs site that you agreed with, you would write a letter to your Senator, expressing your views. That viewpoint that you agree with might even get incorporated into your own parties platform. This is the strength of the American political process, a free and unfettered exchange of ideas.

Here's a list of all the third parties registered with the FEC.

http://www.politics1.com/parties.htm

You're not getting what I'm saying, On the Kill. You're speaking in the context of "patriotism" which means you're acting with your precious country's interests at heart. It's all global, so lose the America first bullshit, even if you think you're dissenting by voting for a Democrat. Forgive me for being blunt...I'm just venting a little at the political idiocy of the left, but I promise to attack some right-wingers on my way out.

Nobody Cares, I know about the libertarians. Perhaps you're just a shill for them or perhaps you're politically confused, posting on a lefty site. Libertarians see government as a hinderance on free enterprise. They may think they're for personal liberty, but they're not concerned with economic equality. And reading their literature and talking to them confirms that fact. But you can't have one without the other. In essence, they want unfettered "free" market capitalism. And no, I'm not trying to shut you up. I'm just telling you that libertarians, seeing how they want to dismantle Social Security, Medicare, welfare, aren't friends to the leftists who post here. Drug legalization and gay rights, which they support, means nothing in an economically unequal society. An end to government safety nets cannot occur without an end to capitalism, which is something the right - conservatives, libertarians do not want, which makes their ideology incompatible to most of the left. I, myself, do not consider myself a leftist since much of the left has proven itself bankrupt, but I oppose much of the rightist nonsense as well.

well i guess by that logic, the only people that should post on this site are people who are in direct agreement with the rest of the leftists that post here.

then everyone can exist in their own little isolated bubble and we'll never have any exchange of ideas. cool!

while we're at it, let's decide everyone who isn't in direct agreement with us is "politically confused".

sheesh. wake the hell up.

Er...I'm not in direct agreement with the leftists who post here. My comment about you being politically confused didn't have anything do with whether I agree with you or not. It's your assumption that libertarians and the left have much in common. Economically, there as far as apart and I thought I'd point that out objectively. But I really don't care if you don't know what you're getting into or if you're deliberately manipulating people. Either way, it's not my problem. Go ahead and trick some disoriented leftists into joining the libertarians. It just might work.

You're forgetting something, cultural issues were THE issue in this election, damn taxes. The Libertarians are more Liberal culturally than even Greenpeace(if you see their anti-gun control stance as liberal in the dictionary definition, not actually endorsed by the majority of liberals), Bush is going to turn this country into a bigituos cesspit, so an awful lot of Libertarians voted for Kerry.

Right. I wouldn't put the Libbies into the same category as Republicans or Christian fundamentalists, of course. My explanation had to do with the political and economic differences between Libertarians and most of the left, libertarians being extreme right econmically.

But being a third party, they're being targeted along with Nader, Greens, and the Socialists.

Voting for liberal scum is the samething as agreeing to throw the contents of your wallet to the parasitic street people...

Liberals are far to fucking stupid to understand the war against terrorism but have no problem putting their stupidity on display on a daily basis...

This would be a far better country if all the liberals followed the example of Andy Veal...

http://in.rediff.com/news/2004/nov/08zero.htm

Voting for liberal scum is the samething as agreeing to throw the contents of your wallet to the parasitic street people...

Liberals are far to fucking stupid to understand the war against terrorism but have no problem putting their stupidity on display on a daily basis...

This would be a far better country if all the liberals followed the example of Andy Veal...

http://in.rediff.com/news/2004/nov/08zero.htm